Rental Property Owner & Real Estate Investor Podcast

Every Monday your host, Brian Hamrick, and his special guest will discuss topics, tips and techniques designed to make you a more confident and successful rental property owner and real estate investor.
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Rental Property Owner & Real Estate Investor Podcast






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Nov 6, 2017

Pat Sandro is one of the original House Hack Babies.  The duplex that he grew up in was owned by his father, and the rent from the other unit helped pay for his diapers.  From an early age, Pat was paying attention to the way his father invested in real estate and self-managed the 36 units he'd acquired.  But it wasn't until after Pat became a physical therapist that he realized the true benefits of Real Estate Investing.

On today's episode, Pat shares the good times & the bad times.  From the huge profits he made flipping condos in Florida before the crash, to the money he lost after 2009.  Pat talks about the multi-family properties he's acquired, the land contracts that provide 'mailbox money', and the 'do-it-yourself' management style he learned from his father.

Pat also tells us about the vacant home he purchased and the horrific discovery in the basement.  You'll also learn about Fair Housing Laws regarding Emotional Support Animals, and how Pat found himself in trouble when he unknowingly violated these rules.

This is an excellent conversation about the realities of owning and managing your own investment properties, and Pat doesn't hold back from sharing the good and the bad.  Enjoy!

Oct 30, 2017

Get Ready to Get Scared by this Special Halloween Episode with Real Ghost Stories from the perspective of Rental Property Owners, Homeowners, and Tenants.

Whether you believe in Ghosts or not, sometimes strange and inexplicable things happen that make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up. Our guests today talk about the creaking doors, the footsteps, the feeling of being watched, and the sensation of seeing an apparition of someone long dead.

With stories from old and new guests: Ann Finkler, Gary Hall, Steve DeKoster, Brandon Krieg, John Potter, and Sue Dejonge.

I know you'll enjoy this episode and I'd appreciate it if you'd share that enjoyment by giving us a review and rating in itunes.

Happy Halloween!

Oct 23, 2017

Sooner or later every investor must ask the question "Where can I get the money to do my next deal?"  Today James Eerdmans from American Realty Property Management and Finance of America Mortgage will help answer that question.

James is a prolific investor who has bought and sold hundreds of properties in the past 20 years.  He's also well versed in the different loan products available to home buyers and investors.

In this episode we'll discuss the standard types of loans available to home buyers such as FHA and VA, credit score requirements, Private Mortgage Insurance, and the amount of money you'll need to put down (anywhere from 0% to 25%). 

We also discuss FHA 203k loans, which allow homeowners the opportunity to roll their rehab costs into the amount borrowed.

James also discusses the differences between Conventional, Commercial, and Private Lending, and how they apply to investors.  You'll also learn how to protect yourself from having your loan 'called in' during the next downturn, the meaning of 'portfolio loan', the number of residential loans you can have, and the different ways banks value your property.

If you're unsure of the different loan options available for your investments, or are looking for updated information on the lending industry, I know you'll enjoy today's conversation.  You can contact James by email or phone:



Oct 16, 2017

Todd Warstler learned he was losing his job while attending a Lou Brown Real Estate Seminar.  The news couldn't have been better received, as Todd had already decided that he could make a better living using Lou's techniques.

Today Todd and I discuss the "Rent-to-Own" system that has helped him replace his job income, and how he's used this training to provide affordable housing to residents who were not able to acquire traditional financing.  Todd took Lou Brown's lessons a step further by providing Credit Restoration Services that help his residents fix their credit report and improve their credit scores.

Todd also shares the returns he shoots for when working with investors, the contractor nightmare he encountered, ways to save money on rehabs, and his opinion on the 'Fix & Flip' Shows made popular on HGTV.

There's a lot of great information in this episode for every type of investor.  If you'd like to get a hold of Todd, you can contact him by email, website or phone:



Oct 2, 2017

Ann Finkler describes herself as an Explorer, Entrepreneur, Investor, and High Risk Taker.  Whether she's Buying an empty Industrial or Office Building, turning a Historic House into a Successful Bed & Breakfast, or Restoring Damaged Homes, she has learned to look at everything with a Creative Eye in order to find Profit and Cash Flow in areas other people would avoid.

Today on the show, Ann tells us how she looks for properties that she can fit businesses into, and how that led her to purchase an industrial building that was only 30% occupied.  She also shares why she is cautious about taking on commercial debt and how she funds her deals using private money.

Ann also shares tips and advice on how to protect your home after a disaster, and why getting to know your insurance agent is so important.  Ann also looks for strategic partnerships, and shares the qualities she likes to see in potential partners.  You'll also learn how Ann was able to retire early, but changed her mind after the events of 9/11.

There's a lot of great experience and information packed into this conversation.  Please take a moment to let us know how much you enjoy the show by going to itunes to subscribe, rate & review!


Sep 25, 2017

True Passive Income is the Holy Grail for most Real Estate Investors.  However, its not always easy to separate ourselves from the Day-to-Day Realities of Investing and figure out ways to create a team, systems and processes that will free up more time and energy for other pursuits.  In this episode we're going to discuss why a good plan violently executed today is better than a perfect plan executed next week.

Gary Hall is an Entrepreneur, Passive Income Strategist, and the Operations Manager of Westshore Property Management in Muskegon, Michigan.  Gary's going to share concrete examples of the systems he's put in place throughout his career to create passive income while building his real estate portfolio.

We also go into detail on a low income 11 unit that he's turning into an Airbnb cash cow, as well as his first 'blind pool' syndication and the lessons he learned while raising over $400,000.

Gary also discusses the Financial Business he started while in College, Whether Dave Ramsay's advice applies to Commercial Investors, and his outlook on the West Michigan Market.

If you're serious about treating your Real Estate Investing as a Business, then I know you're going to get a lot out of this episode.

Gary's contact info:

To share your True Life Ghost Story contact Brian Hamrick @


Sep 18, 2017

Today we take a Deeper Dive into the Un-Sexy, yet Extremely Important, details that can make or break your rental property investments:

- why you should always have an Attorney review your Contracts

- the importance of Title Companies when you buy a Property

- how to avoid Adverse Possession - the Hostile Takeover of your Property

- How you can Profit from having a Cell Tower on your Property

- How to avoid Land Contract Disasters

Brian Durham is a Real Estate Agent and Office Manager for Precision Real Estate. He's also finished law school and is in the process of taking the bar exam. Brian has a background in Telecommunications, business management, and tenant law.

In this episode, Brian shares how his first home presented a unique and lucrative profit potential when a large grocery store chain made him an offer he couldn't refuse, what happened when a house he sold on land contract burned down, and why he sees the strong housing market continuing for another two to three years.

I know you'll gain a lot of in-depth real estate knowledge from today's conversation. Please take a moment to go to itunes to give us a review & rating.

To contact Brian:

facebook: Precision Real Estate llc


And share your Real Life Ghost Story by emailing Brian Hamrick @

Sep 11, 2017

This episode is dedicated to anyone who's ever owned rental property and has had to decide whether they should self-manage or hire a professional 3rd party property management company.

James Loftus and Patrick Spitzley are back in the studio to discuss their experiences managing their rental properties and then handing over their babies to someone else to take care of them.

We discuss the pro's & con's of professional management v.s. self-managing, getting rid of intrusive and demanding tenants, and whether or not your bottom-line numbers will improve with professional management.

James and Patrick also discuss why they chose not to start their own management companies, the lifestyle they've created with their free time, and whether or not $50 for changing a toilet paper holder is too expensive.

I know you're going to enjoy our conversation.  Stick around until the end to hear some bonus 'off-mic' content!

Sep 4, 2017

Whitney Nicely believes everyone should control their destiny by investing in real estate as soon and as much as possible.  Today she joins me in the studio to talk about the many types of deals she's done, the techniques she's used, and the lessons she's learned along the way.

Whitney LOVES investing in Lease Options, and she tells some great stories of the money she's made, and the headaches she's encountered.

You'll also learn the three profit points Whitney focuses on when doing a lease option: The non-refundable lease fee, monthly cash flow, and profit at sale.

Whitney also buys vacant land at auctions and tells the story of two purchases that had surprisingly lucrative outcomes.  You'll also find out how she and her boyfriend (now husband) were able to purchase their apartment units with no money down.

This is a fun, informational episode that I know you're going to enjoy.

You can contact Whitney through her facebook page by going to:

Aug 28, 2017

In this red-hot real estate market you need every possible edge to separate yourself from all of the other buyers and investors you're competing with.  There are also tricks and tips sellers need to be aware of to get the best price for their property.

Today Joshua Schaub from Icon Realty Group is back in the studio to share up-to-date actionable techniques for buyers, sellers and investors that will give you the edge in today's real estate market.

Joshua has 7 tips for buyers that will help them get more offers accepted, 5 tips for sellers that will help them price and market their home effectively, and real-life stories from the trenches that every investor can learn from.

We discuss the vacant land he purchased where his development plans were literally 'sunk', why buyers should do a final walk-through before closing, and how he helped sell a house that hadn't received any offers for more money than the seller had been asking through a previous broker.

There's a lot of fantastic information packed into this episode.  I'm also thrilled to welcome Icon Realty Group as the newest sponsor for this show.  You can contact Joshua and Icon Realty Group by phone or website:



Aug 21, 2017

Bill and Jackie Howson have achieved what many Real Estate Investors dream of - They've built a 57 Unit portfolio, weathered the loss of his job, and achieved financial security through Real Estate Investing.  But best of all, they've done it together.

Today we discuss how their unique talents and skills compliment each other, and share some funny stories of the arguments they've had along the way.  Bill is the researcher and constant learner, who enjoys the due diligence and acquisition phase.  Jackie is the designer and rehabber, who has earned her respect in a male-dominated industry.

Bill and Jackie also share their management philosophies, and tell why they no longer accept residents who have evictions in their past.  They also talk language differences, and how they've had to learn the American meaning of 'yard', 'electrical socket', 'tub', and 'faucet'.

I know you'll enjoy this fun and informative conversation.  Please take a moment to go to itunes to give us a 5 star rating and review!

Aug 14, 2017
When it comes to buying Commercial Retail, Office or Industrial Investment Property, there's a lot of differences from the Commercial Multifamily and Apartment World.  Here to discuss and compare those differences with us today is Michael Cagen, a Senior Associate with Marcus & Millichap.

Michael and I talk about Single Tenant Net Leases in the Retail space, such as those you might find with a Dollar General store or a Walgreens.  We also discuss the different types of leases you might find in an office building such as Gross, Modified Gross, Single Net, Double Net, Triple Net and Absolute Net, and who pays what expenses under each. 

Michael shares the factors used in valuing these types of commercial properties, such as price and cost per square foot, cap rate, tenant strength, lease duration, and tenant improvements ("TI").  He also shares real-world examples from investments he's brokered.

You'll also get an inside look at how Marcus & Millichap position their client's commercial properties in the market to attract the greatest number of buyers and how that translates to higher purchase prices.  Michael will take us step-by-step through the process of working with sellers and buyers, and what makes a purchase offer stronger than others.

This episode offers an in-depth and fascinating look at the different types of commercial investments.  You can contact Michael by email or phone:

Aug 7, 2017

Joe Fairless is the host of "The Best Real Estate Investing Advice Ever" Podcast and today he's in the studio to tell us how he grew his portfolio from Four Single-Family Rentals to an apartment portfolio worth over $160 Million within the span of three years.

Joe shares the details on his 'Best Ever' investment, a 250 Unit complex in Houston Texas, and how he increased it's value from $16.1 Million to $21.6 Million in two years.

Joe also discusses the types of apartment investments he buys, his Return on Investment goals, and the steps he takes to increase the Net Operating Income.  He'll also take us through his 3-step approach to scaling his business through strategic partnerships, as well as what he looks for in potential partners and what skills he brings to the table.

Joe also has a marketing background, and we discuss how important marketing is to raising money and being a successful investor.  Joe also tells the story of his brief career in stand-up comedy and how that's helped him get past the fear of talking with investors.

Whether you're familiar with Joe's podcast or not, I know you'll learn a lot of great information from this episode.  You can contact Joe through his email or website, and by listening to his podcast:

Jul 31, 2017

In 2011 Tim VandenToorn took a leap of faith and invested $30,000 from his savings and ROTH IRA into a four-unit foreclosure.  That was his first step into real estate investing and he's been going strong ever since, building a portfolio worth over $1 Million dollars.  In this episode, you'll find out how he did it.

Tim and I also discuss his previous career in law enforcement, and why he traded that in to work with his family in property management at United Properties of West Michigan.  Tim started as a maintenance tech and has since worked his way up to Managing Partner, where he oversees over 500 properties in the West Michigan area.  Tim also started United Realty, which assists investors with the acquisition of investment properties.

Tim shares a lot of the experience he's gained during this time, such as buying multiple properties from tax sales, understanding the true expenses of investment property, the power of using 'other people's money', budgeting for capital improvements, and the functional issues tenants look at when deciding whether they should rent your unit.

Tim also spends a lot of time working with first-time investors, and shares his tips on managing your expectations in this hot real estate market, defining your goals, and where he sees the opportunities going forward.

There's a lot of great information packed into this conversation.  If you'd like to contact Tim or United Properties, you can do so by email or website:

Tim can also be found on Bigger Pockets.

Jul 24, 2017

Many investors are struggling to find deals in this tight real estate market, and ending up increasingly frustrated by the lack of inventory and high asking prices they're encountering in the Primary market in which these properties are traded.

But there is a Secondary market in which these properties can be acquired for a fraction of their value by purchasing the note, or underlying mortgage.

Gene Chandler, the Asset Manager for Chandler & Chandler Financial, LLC, is in the studio with me today to share his experiences over the past decade in buying one-off and small pools of distressed assets directly from banks, hedge funds, and private equity groups.

Gene will explain the differences between the primary and secondary markets, performing v.s. non-performing loans, and traditional rehabs and flips v.s. 'fixing' a note.

You'll also learn the lingo Gene uses when talking to the bank's special asset manager, the types of properties he prefers, and many examples of the notes he's purchased and the profits he's made.

There's a lot of great information packed into this episode.  If you've ever wondered what it takes to purchase the note directly from the lender, you owe it to yourself to check out this episode.

Gene can be contacted through his website or email:



Jul 17, 2017

Abandoned and Dilapidated for the past ten years, it was a two-unit property that no investor wanted anything to do with.  I would drive by and wonder when the city would get around to tearing it down.

And then, Mike VanderWoude came along.

Mike is a broker at 616 Places, and he saw something that no one else did.  He saw money.

Today, Mike takes us step-by-step through the acquisition and rehab of this two-unit property.  How he negotiated the purchase price, acquired a construction loan, and checked with the city to make sure that it was indeed, a 2-unit property.

Mike also talks about the dynamics of Grand Rapids' West Side neighborhoods, how he researched what residents want in a home, whether they prefer a tub or shower, and the value of having great photos for marketing.

I know you'll enjoy learning from Mike's experience bringing a 2-unit back to life.  You can find out more about Mike on the web:

Enjoy the show!

Jul 10, 2017

Bert Heyboer, President of S&G Property Management Company, has been investing in & managing rental properties since 2003.  Today he shares his stories from the trenches, including the Most Evil Woman on Earth, the Cat Woman, and difficult conversations with tenants who can't pay their rent.

Bert also shares his expert advice on how to get started in owning rental property, managing your cashflow expectations, and making sacrifices now so that you can reap the rewards later.

Bert's also passionate about the legislation affecting rental property owners, and chairs the RPOA's government affairs committee where he works closely with local & state lawmakers to prevent bad bills from happening.

I know you'll enjoy today's conversation with Bert.  You can contact Bert and S&G Property Management by web or phone:



Jul 3, 2017

If you're a buyer or seller of apartment communities in the Michigan and Ohio area, chances are you've talked to Al Beachum, an associate broker with Income Property Organization.

Al was recently named a 2016 Costar Power Broker with 47 commercial apartment transactions in 2016.  Since 2007 Al has brokered over 230 multifamily properties worth over a half-billion dollars.

Today Al and I discuss his legal background and how it gives him an edge in working through the complex legal challenges that often happen during acquisitions.  We also talk about the differences in scale and efficiencies between single family and apartment investing, and how to strategically deploy funds to improve apartment values.

Al works with a lot of first-time apartment investors and shares how he vets potential buyers to determine where their capital is coming from, whether they're properly funded, and what qualifications and track record they bring to the table.

We also discuss the Michigan market and Al's outlook on the changes he sees happening in the next several years.

If you're interested in investing in apartment communities, then this is a 'must-listen' episode!

You can contact Al through Income Property Organization's website:

Jun 26, 2017

When it comes to Real Estate Investing, Marty Green has had a wild ride.  He made millions of dollars Rehabbing and Flipping Houses, and then lost it all during the Great Recession.  After licking his wounds for about a week, he decided to start his own property management company, and in the process has flipped the traditional property management style upside down.

Today Marty discusses how he took everything he dislikes about traditional property management and created a company that does things very differently.  Marty discusses the philosophy and strategies that align his companies' goals and profit with those of the owners they manage for.

Marty also shares some colorful stories of his early days managing rough properties and the confrontations he's had with past tenants.  He also shares the story of how he was recruited by the Grand Rapids Vice Squad to become an undercover informant in order to rid his properties of criminal characters.

We're also thrilled that Marty's company, Green Property Management, will now be an official sponsor of this podcast!  You can get in touch with Marty, or Green Property Management by website, phone, or email:


Jun 19, 2017

Because you Demanded it!  Justin Workman & Rob Minch are back in the studio today to answer more questions from our listeners:

How much money should you set aside for maintenance & capital expenses?

What repairs should you know how to do yourself v.s. what should you hire someone to do?

How do you avoid evictions?

Who do you need on your team to make the lender happy?

Resources for improving your Negotiation Skills.

How do you quit your job and live of of rents?

Justin, Rob & Brian also discuss the signs they're seeing in the marketplace and economy that are affecting their decisions & investments.

Enjoy the show!

Jun 12, 2017

In 2012 Lonnie Shields and his wife were driving down the Beltline when their lives changed forever in an auto accident.  Today Lonnie & I talk about that accident, and the role real estate investing has played on their road to recovery.

Lonnie shares his thought process in determining to sell off his small Multifamilies in Grand Rapids and invest in Single-Family Homes in a new, less expensive market.  We discuss the 1031 exchange he's currently doing by selling a 5-unit and purchasing 8 to 10 Single Families in Muskegon, Michigan.

We also talk about Self-Directed IRA's, and how Lonnie prefers using his SDIRA as a way to invest in two SFHs instead of the stock market, where he was losing money every year.  Lonnie also talks about reconciling his Christian faith with the realities of being an investor and landlord, and the effect it has on his trust in sellers, contractors and tenants.

Lonnie is also a big believer in the benefits of being an RPOA member.  If you'd like to learn more about the RPOA, go to  And please be sure to give this podcast a review & rating on itunes.


Jun 5, 2017

Benjamin Mcclellan grew up with eight brothers & sisters, few material possessions, and even less money.  Many of his meals consisted of rice, beans, and popcorn.  But his parents instilled in him a strong work ethic and a lifelong passion for learning.

That passion has led Benjamin to invest in 14 Buy & Hold Rentals, as well as 3 Flips in the Grand Rapids area.  He's also done what I'd call "Extreme House Hacking" by buying foreclosed properties with no running water, gas or heat, and living there while he does the rehab.  This strategy has led to interesting encounters with homeless squatters, thieving neighbors, and frozen pipes, but its also set Benjamin on the path to financial independence.

Benjamin also has a knack for creating relationships with sellers and note holders that has helped him acquire his properties for very little money down with unique deal structures.  He shares the nuts and bolts of those deals in today's conversation.

If you want to know what it takes to start with very little and build it into a strong portfolio of real estate assets, then I know you're going to enjoy today's conversation.

May 29, 2017

Should you be forced to allow residents to smoke medical marijuana in your properties?  Are you concerned about Rent Control Laws affecting your bottom line?  Who should pay the cost of getting rid of Bed Bugs?  Is it your responsibility to make sure your residents are registered to vote?

Who is helping to shape the legislation that answers these questions?

The Rental Property Owners Association ("RPOA") is, that's who.

And today, we talk with Clay Powell, the Director of the RPOA, about a little understood, yet vital function of the RPOA, which is to work with local and state legislators to prevent laws that could make owning rental property more expensive and cumbersome for Landlords and Investors.

Clay and I discuss recent successes in preventing mandated inspections for Lead Paint, requiring landlords to register their residents to vote, expensive requirements for new smoke detector technology, and many other issues that affect our bottom line.

The RPOA is protecting your rights as a Landlord and Investor, whether you're a member or not.  You can help out by becoming a member:

You can also contribute to the Political Action Committee ("PAC") by calling 616-454-3385 with your donation.

Enjoy the show!

May 22, 2017

A year ago Cameron & Emily Walker, in their own words, 'knew nothing' about buying rental property and real estate investing.

Cut to today's conversation where they share how they came across the concept of House Hacking, located & purchased a duplex, and are now living in one unit and using the rent from the other unit to pay their bills.

It wasn't an easy learning experience, and Cameron & Emily are going to tell us how they raised money for their down payment from their wedding registry, evicted their tenant while on their honeymoon, and how they're using their extra house hacking income to pay off their student loans.

We also debate whether or not they should pay off their Private Mortgage Insurance (PMI) immediately, or apply those payments to their next house hack.

I know you'll enjoy today's episode.  Cameron & Emily never thought they'd be home owners so soon, let alone rental property owners.  If you're already an investor this conversation will remind you what it was like when you began.  If you're not yet an investor, this episode will inspire you to get started!

And if you like what you hear, do me a favor and go to to itunes to give us a review & rating.


May 15, 2017

As a syndicator in large apartment investments, I've certainly spent a lot of time and effort raising money from private investors.

"Magnetic Capital: How to Raise All the Money You Need for ANY Worthy Venture" is a book that I wish I'd had when I was just starting out.

Victor J. Menasce, the author, joins me today to share the secrets he's learned about raising Other People's Money.  We'll discuss the five fundamental elements to raising money: Relationship, Trust, Results, Compelling Opportunity, and Allignment, and how they apply to Real Estate Opportunities.

Victor will also provide insight into the Psychology of raising money, how to avoid being 'creepy', The Art of the Pitch, Rookie Mistakes to Avoid, and whether or not you need a business plan.

Victor has also appeared on "Dragon's Den", which is the Canadian equivalent of "Shark Tank", and he'll share that interesting experience with us.

You can purchase "Magnetic Capital" by going to Victor's website:

There's a lot of great actionable content in today's episode that I know you'll enjoy.  One action you can take right now is to give us a review & rating on itunes!


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